Port 25 - Communications from the open source community at Microsoft

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1. mk said:

   That hurts.

   Just today i started to use it :-( It disappeared under my fingers. Is there another place with the latest downloads/docs?

     (mk)

   posted at 05:14PM 06/06/2008
2. Sandcastle said:

   We have removed Sandcastle project from Codeplex after carefully evaluating the feedback from this thread

   posted at 05:30PM 06/06/2008
3. Sam Ramji said:

   @mk - sorry about the interruption.  We'll find a way to either post the source or enable users to download the binary; the project will continue but it will not be on Codeplex or use the Ms-PL unless it complies with Microsoft's open source policy.

   posted at 09:32PM 06/06/2008
4. Paul Selormey said:

   Yes it really hurts, especially when we are using this stuff and getting the results we needed until some guys with the help of "me too" Internet journalist decided they knew what we needed.

   The CodePlex was used because it provided the facilities; Issue Tracker and Discussion forum, and site like MSDN Code Gallery was not published.

   We do not care about the source, just release the binary and please do it soon, since you used your office to take it off.

   We know you have to do your job, but most of us do not live by open sources - even though we work on them.

   posted at 12:09AM 06/07/2008
5. Kevin said:

   I became to know this project this Friday. I was trying to find a successor of Ndoc. It wad a bit sad for me that the Ndoc was not continued after the year 2004. Luckily i find Sandcastle at last.But Unfortunately the source code was not there, so another hurt came.I've sawn a lot of guys have expressed their sad and anger on the Project's talk. The project is really cool, i love it.

   posted at 08:57AM 06/07/2008
6. mk said:

   @Paul

   Hi, Paul. I understand you very well. BUT. Open Source deserves a little bit more loyalty. I'm sure, it helped you one or the other time.

   And to the topic "zealots". Well, they have their place...

   I, personally, like Open Source. And i want Open Source. And i do not think, that it puts "real" business in danger. REAL business lives from SPEED, division of labor and INVESTMENT. Open Source gives me the feeling, that i'm not  a complete slave. And i learned a LOT from it.

   For example that it is much better to find a new project than to maintain a dying one myself on myself. It's still better, though, than being totally hosed. Been there...

     (mk)

   posted at 04:06PM 06/07/2008
7. Paulo Santos said:

   It's really sad to know that SandCastle was removed from CodePlex.

   I've contacted Eric Woodruf and he was kind enough to send me the May 2008 release of SandCastle.

   If anyone needs it I've mirrored it here: pjondevelopment.50webs.com/blog/2008/06/sandcastle-may-2008-binaries.html

   Regards,

   Paulo Santos

   posted at 09:16AM 06/08/2008
8. David Ostroske said:

   Will the Sandcastle developers honor the Ms-PL, release the project's source code, and come back to CodePlex? Or will they keep the source closed and publish somewhere else?

   posted at 02:53PM 06/09/2008
9. jkew said:

   It surprises me that this was made into a big deal. I'm doubtful that SourceForge manages projects closely in this way. Perhaps they monitor the writes to the repository.

   I'm also not sure how this happened in the first place. The primary benefit of a development site like CodePlex is to facilitate development between multiple developers (or potiential developers). Does SandCastle only have one developer? Do they not use an scm? Were they just confused about the nature of CodePlex?

   I suppose it initially surprised me that this was a big deal, but if the developers were simply not aware of what CodePlex does... what social divide was left uncrossed?

   posted at 07:10PM 06/09/2008
10. JohnC said:

    Wow!  How bizarre is this?  

    A lot of people rely on Sandcastle.  

    I use it for my business and would gladly pay for it if it was commercial software and reasonably priced.  

    I have no beef with open source particularly but I couldn't care less about having the source code for a utility program that I use in my business.  This is a bit draconian and just the sort of bizarre unthinking and most importantly unaccountable exploit that continues to cement the bad reputation of open source projects in my mind and others.

    Surely some other place could have been found in a timely manner to host the binaries before removing it from CodePlex.

    Yanking widely used and important software without warning is not something a respectable for profit company *accountable* to it's customers could ever afford to do.

    Every time I've incorporated or tried to incorporate any open source software with the single exception of Firebird rdbms in my commercial applications something truly unusual, unexpected and downright bizarre has come along to sour the taste of it and make me that much more dedicated to finding commercial alternatives wherever possible.

    When in modern times did the cause of open source software include screwing the commercial developers who happen to use it? Richard Stallman would rejoice to hear about this, it's right out of his manifesto.

    I urge you to show a little responsibility and accountability and post the software somewhere as soon as humanly possible and post a redirect for users to find it.  

    This whole thing smacks of silly politics and some sort of internal dispute at the expense of the end users; resonable, responsible people would have implemented an alternative before yanking it.

    posted at 01:57AM 06/10/2008

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