Why I’m excited about Yahoo! - Port 25: The Open Source Community at Microsoft
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Why I’m excited about Yahoo! by Sam Ramji on February 25, 2008 12:31PM

There are no guarantees that a future of Microsoft + Yahoo! will arrive, but the possibilities have me feeling positive. These are just my personal opinions – and who knows what will happen – but a few things described below give me optimism for an increasingly high-performance, multi-platform, PHP-infused and developer-driven future. 

Here are a few reasons why I’m excited.

Yahoo! is famous for its culture of openness.  Outstanding technologies like Hadoop have been developed and contributed to the community, and the fundamental concepts of open Internet culture at Yahoo! are core to its success.  Microsoft has made strides in the last few years in understanding and embracing open source developers, development models, and technologies – I’d say we’ve gone from 1 to 100 and are still going.  Yahoo!  would speed our progress from 100 to 1,000.

One important reason?  Technical leaders like Rasmus Lerdorf, Doug Cutting, and many others….

Those who read Port25 often know that we are at the heart of the shift at Microsoft to embrace PHP on Windows.  My team has had the privilege to work with Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski and their engineering team.  Just through this collaboration with community developers and our partners at Zend, Microsoft engineers and product teams learned a lot. 

We have also learned a great deal from Jim Hugunin (Jython and Iron Python architect) and come a long way in our openness to new languages and community development.  John Lam has shown us the light on Ruby.  I think we are at a point in time where we could thrill developers with Rasmus’ leadership on PHP.   Having the inventor of PHP in the same company with the language runtime performance wizards in the Developer Division under Scott Guthrie, makes my mind boggle. 

Similarly, a major focus at Microsoft is understanding the developer – and those of you who have been watching have seen the shift from strictly “let’s show PHP developers that ASP.NET is cool” to “and let’s show PHP developers that we understand that PHP is cool”, a result of learning from day-to-day work with PHP developers.  The sheer mass of PHP-focused voices that this combination would bring would make PHP absolutely fundamental to the company.  Many of these developers are actively contributing to code beyond the core Yahoo! web platform and are leaders in their own right.

And, finally, we’ve taken a great leap forward in Windows/Linux Interoperability in both virtualization (SuSE Linux on Hyper-V) and protocols (identity, management, file systems, networking), with major customer, partner, and engineering commitments.   I have no access to information on Yahoo!’s server farms, but I expect Microsoft + Yahoo would accelerate our capabilities in Windows/ Linux interoperability significantly as well.   The modern datacenter is a heterogeneous environment, and I have heard over and over again from customers the value they place on our recognition and technical competency supporting that real-world heterogeneity.

The world is different today than it was 10 years ago, and so are we.  Here on the Redmond campus, MacBook Pros aren’t unheard of, and people with knowledge of Linux are in demand.  Some of those MacBooks are running Vista, administrators are running PHP and ASP.NET on the same machine, and we’re seeing adoption of open source in and on top of a range of Microsoft technologies. As the world has changed, so has Microsoft, to the benefit of the company and our customers.  This would be an exciting next step—here’s hoping!  

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  1. A Yahoo! said:

    Regarding the previous comment, Y! runs all kinds of operating systems. FreeBSD is widely used at the moment, but it may not always be so and it is certainly not the only OS at Y!. The important part is the hardware on which those OS's operate. In my experience it tends to be x86-based machines.  This infers something very important about "the platform" at Yahoo!: it can be virtualized.

    If Microsoft wants to keep Y! engineers, they are going to have to make a commitment to allow them to use the technology stack that makes them happy. I think that will become clear to MS brass as soon as they start asking people why they are leaving (the answer will be fear, uncertainty, and doubt about working for MS.)

    Y!'s is typically a very FOSS-based stack. If this stack was ultimately virtualized on Windows Server, it seems to me that everybody wins. MS gets to put their interoperability claim to the test (FreeBSD on Win Server will almost undoubtedly be a new challenge for them). Y!'s get to keep developing for *nix-like OS'. With any luck, a bunch of servers get consolidated and running Y! becomes more efficient and less expensive.

    Quibbling over the production hardware stack is really missing the point in any case. What Sam is writing about above is culture shift at MS. I think MS is in danger of losing Y! engineers over differences in culture, perceived or actual. What MS needs to do is make strong assurances that Y!'s can continue to use the tools they choose to create innovative products going forward, and they will not be beaten about the head with a particular technology or corporate ideology. I have yet to see strong assurances to that effect and to be honest, there are few people at MS who could honestly make those assurances and make them stick. While we watch this play out, it is nice to see MS folks making an effort to reassure Y! that they care.  

    posted at 12:16AM 02/26/2008
  2. Jin Tao said:

    Hi Bill,

    our servers are BSD based - not linux and it will stay that way ;)

    posted at 09:02AM 02/26/2008
  3. Re A Yahoo!'s comments above: Microsoft aren't newcomers to FreeBSD. They dealt with it during the initial operations after takeover, during the first failed migration and during the second successful migration. Not only did they deal with it on an operations basis, but the CLR ('Rotor') was implemented as part of their reference platform for ECMA certification, and .NET Passport was implemented on both Windows and FreeBSD to assist Hotmail migration to Windows.

    To Sam: what's Port 25's view on the acquisition of Y! with regard to the impact on FreeBSD? Y! is a significant contributor to FreeBSD in terms of server and bandwidth resources as well as developer resources. If a Hotmail-like migration was to occur with Y!, then this will have a significant impact on FreeBSD. Be interested to see if MS even consider this impact at all.

    posted at 06:40AM 02/27/2008
  4. Clarification: takeover and migration of Hotmail.

    posted at 06:13PM 02/27/2008
  5. Sam Ramji said:

    Re: FreeBSD comments - My understanding from friends at Yahoo! is that there has been momentum for some time to migrate to Linux - most likely RHEL.  Regardless of what the final OS is, from the Port 25 perspective it will represent a new frontier for interoperability.

    I'd personally like to see us embrace the open source culture at Yahoo! and continue their tradition of contributing to a wide range of projects including operating systems.  We do run FreeBSD in the lab although we're not developing virtualization capabilities to support it at this time.  I personally think it's a great OS.  

    posted at 11:38PM 02/27/2008
  6. Dietmar said:

    Sam, you say

    As the world has changed, so has Microsoft, to the benefit of the company and our customers.  

    I strongly dieagree, the world has changed and Microsoft noticed it too late.

    You managed to beat greta companies like Netscape and Palm which I do not really care about, but having "the internet content" in your hand would really scare me.

    I will avoid Microsoftw Web services as long as I can and I will do the same with Yahoo's services if Microsoft really takes over Yahoo!

    In oppinion, which is as personal as yours Microsoft did not yet manage to proof that it is not evil.

    Cheers, Dietmar

    posted at 07:59AM 02/28/2008
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