We are receiving… - Port 25: The Open Source Community at Microsoft
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We are receiving… by admin on April 07, 2006 07:58PM

Thank you for bringing your honest thoughts to the site in the last two days.  No productive conversation can exist without candor - and you all have been candid.  We've gotten around 800+ comments, nearly half of which have been angry, congratulatory, suspicious, engaging, or surprised.  (The other half were from spam bots, in case you were wondering.)

Some of the comments were the beginning of longer discussions, and we'll carry those on over the coming weeks.  Others gave us a great to-do list which we're working on over the next couple of days.

So, the mea culpas:

  1. Videos:  Believe it or not, we hadn't considered the WMV issue.  We've already translated those files to AVIs and will use that format for future videos.  The AVIs will be up on the site next week.
  2. Readability issues: We're going to darken and enlarge the text on the site.
  3. Phishing filter: We've dealt with a few errors that caused phishing alerts in some browsers - please let us know if you see otherwise.
  4. Safari:  We are going to fix the "missing submit button" as soon as possible

Due to requests from the community, we're going to implement a registration system (NOT Passport!) that will let us deal with spamming more effectively.

I wasn't surprised to see some paranoia in some responses - before joining Microsoft in 2004 I was often convinced of various conspiracy theories involving Redmond - and I am going to address this up front.

One poster suggested that the quality of comments overall was significantly lower than the dialog on other sites:

Friday, April 07, 2006 2:50 PM by David Cherryholmes

It looks suspicious to me that so many of the posts attacking MS and supporting FOSS has been poorly written and rabid.  I contrast that with the degree of literacy, elegance, and well-framed arguments that I read on other pro-FOSS sites and, well, it just makes me wonder.... could there be some moderating going on here in an effort to deliberately mis-portray the community?  Of course the question is beyond proof, a point anyone still inclined to give MS the BOD will rapidly point out.  But still, the character of the posts are at odds with many, many other data points out there to be garnered.

We actually believe that many of these comments are from linux.org.ru, and not community members.  We're going to deliver a "modded comments" area in the near term where you can dig in to see what comments we've modded down.  We are NOT modding down intelligent discussion - it is "literacy, elegance, and well-framed arguments" that we hope to see here.

Longer term, I want to establish community moderators.  It will take us a bit to implement this, but if you are interested in being a mod, please let me know.

So again, I thank you for being part of our community at our launch.  Have a great weekend.

Sam

Comments RSS
  1. That would be good, as I'm particularly interested in the Directory Services vid.

    posted at 09:55PM 04/07/2006
  2. Anand said:

    I'm glad that you've been listening to all the comments that have been posted.  I have one question regarding the videos.  You stated that you'll be using AVI.  What audio/video codecs?

    posted at 12:52AM 04/08/2006
  3. WIll Shatter said:

    Communities?  Puhlease....

    The community is nothing but a well for Microsoft to siphon off ideas from "those Linux people" and continue to make Windows seem more open.  Microsoft does not care about interop..ultimately it's about everyone buying into the cash cow....the herd mentality of the faithful followers.  

    Think about it.  Microsoft continues to marginilize Linux through these types of "community outreach" efforts.  It's all smoke and mirrors....be sure to tell everyone that the Open Source lab is actually a covert tunnel into the marketing arm of the Windows FUD factory.  

    The biggest, most lying mouths of all time.

    posted at 12:58AM 04/08/2006
  4. I am willing to help moderate as my time allows.  I am a strong open source advocate, a former Microsoft employee, and so forth.  I ought to have some credibility with both camps.

    I can be reached at chris at metatrontech dot com.

    Anyway, it is good to hear that you are listening to the issues that are being raised on this board.

    A lot of my current work with my customers involves helping to push open source software in emerging markets.

    Best Wishes,
    Chris Travers
    Metatron Technology Consulting

    posted at 02:28AM 04/08/2006
  5. Nektar said:

    I want to voice my disagreement with some of your decisions listed above:
    1. Why not use Passport? Passport is used by so many millions of people and why should I or everyone need to have to remember an extra username or password just for this site. I am not saying that all sites on the Internet should be using Passport but at least around Microsoft there should be some consistency. This is what you have been lacking all these years. The forums use a different system of user accounts from Channel9 from the MS blogs from now this site? Why? Why should I have different registrations at each place. AT least use Passport as it is now intended to be: a single sign-on system for all Microsoft properties. Is that so bad? What is wrong about that. All other companies, eg. Yahoo!, Google, even software companies,  do not have multiple registration and user account systems for each one of their services, why should Microsoft?
    2. If you are going to employ moderation please come up with a uniform stradegy acroos all Microsoft community sites. It is the same complaint with consistency as above. Your Microsoft Forums at forums.microsoft.com use a different software that is by the way horrible, Channel9 a different one, etc, etc, with various levels and measures of moderation. Your bug-tracking database, if there is such a thing, still use another platform on Microsoft Connect and still many users use the Newsgroups. I am not against choice but please coordinate your effords so as at least these communities do not overlap one another, do not have complete different systems of usability and above all do not look as if they have been all designed by separate companies. By trying to please everyone by building various styles of community, you will manage to please noone. Make one stradegy that is complete and not many smaller ones that each one lack some little features.
    3. Finally, avi is a containor and so could you please provide the exact name of the codecs that you will use instead of WMV. Why don't you provide WMV support on Linux instead? That would be the best think that your lab could do. If you seriously think that WMV can become more acceptable. And remember that there are Windows users as well here that might need WMV support so do not drop that too. Is it what I said above: why don't you take example from the already rich media formats available on the Microsoft produced www.on10.net community site. On there they use many popular video foramts. Why don't you ask them and take some of their experience if not some of their tools and expertese instead of having to re-invent the wheel.
    Don't you talk amongst yourselves in Microsoft? Look at MSN and Windows Live, the sites are inconsistent: Look at this  Yahoo! Finance, Yahoo! mail, Yahoo! search, whilst Windows Live Mail, MSN Money, MSN or Windows Live Search. What is wrong with you?

    posted at 03:35AM 04/08/2006
  6. an MCSE converting to Linux said:

    Instead of putting the videos up in AVI format, why not convert them to FLV and use one of the great Open Source FLV players to play it.  That way you will eliminate any compatibility issues with other platforms.

    posted at 07:59AM 04/08/2006
  7. Passport's a non-starter, because it ties you to a specific email address. I have a passport account, but I don't use it ever outside of testing Messenger. The optimal idea would be to allow for *both* Passport and non-passport.

    On the AVI thing, yes, please DO be careful about codecs. The best solution would be something like MPEG-4, that is supported equally everywhere, and doesn't require you to make codec decisions.

    posted at 10:55AM 04/08/2006
  8. >>>The community is nothing but a well for Microsoft to siphon off ideas from "those Linux people" and continue to make Windows seem more open.  Microsoft does not care about interop..ultimately it's about everyone buying into the cash cow....the herd mentality of the faithful followers.   <<<

    I fail to understand why we are not helped by Microsoft making a better product.  While I value my Freedom (as in Free Software), and so I generally avoid using proprietary software, having Windows be a better product would make it easier to support my Windows customers.

    Best Wishes,
    Chris Travers
    Metatron Technology Consulting

    posted at 12:39PM 04/08/2006
  9. Mark Jensen said:

    I think you aren't understanding the purpose of the Microsoft Open Source Lab.   Perhaps I don't understand it either, and I am not going to lay claim to insider knowledge in this.

    But, the lab isn't there to write WMV support for Linux.   They aren't there to support Linux development at all (though I have seen reports of some bug submissions from the lab).   It is a Microsoft-funded project, after all.   These are experienced Unix/*nix people whose main purpose (as I see it) is to help Microsoft products operate in a mixed environment.    Microsoft wants to get as much of the declining Unix server market as possible.   This is a means to an end.   And it also provides an opportunity for Microsoft customers (perhaps new purchasers of Windows Server) to come to for support with their Windows/Unix environment.

    I am glad to see moderation coming to this site, as no one here wants to scroll through page after page of close-minded drivel.

    posted at 12:47PM 04/08/2006
  10. From what I've seen coming out of the Lab, interoperability is a minor purpose. Based on various public statements, its entire purpose is to give Ballmer and Microsoft more ammo to get people to stop using anything but Windows.

    If Microsoft thought they could do this sans the Lab, it wouldn't exist.

    posted at 02:44PM 04/08/2006
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